When it emerged that this year's EASST/4S conference would go fully virtual, panel organisers Paula Bialski (University of St. Gallen) and Mace Ojala (IT-University of Copenhagen) decided that something would need to be done to 'combat looming Zoom-fatigue'. Instead of a traditional panel, they turned all talks into conversational podcasts episodes. You can check out the result 'Hacker Cultures: The Conference Podcast' at https://www.buzzsprout.com/1323889. SHL member Annika Richterich contributed an episode on her research on learning in hacker- and makerspaces: exploring hackers' and makers' curiosity about digital technology and crafts, their (self-driven) learning practices, issues of in- and exclusion, and why some hackers and makers told her to better 'forget about the learning'. You can find the episode at https://www.buzzsprout.com/1323889/5257522-episode-3-annika-richterich-forget-about-the-learning-on-digital-creativity-and-expertise-in-hacker-makerspaces.