Errors-To: owner-dead-of-night@cogs.susx.ac.uk Reply-To: dead-of-night-request@cogs.susx.ac.uk Precedence: bulk From: dead-of-night-request@cogs.susx.ac.uk To: dead-of-night@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: In the Dead of Night of 05/06/97 (#122) I N T H E D E A D O F N I G H T The electronic mailing list dedicated to the music of UK and its members, past & present ========================================================== Issue number 122 ========================================================== Tuesday, 6 May 1997 Today's Topics: Jobson-CD for Wetton-CD? Bruford left U.K. because of "creative differences"? (none) Re: In the Dead of Night of 04/29/97 (#121) Re: Bruford left U.K. because of "creative differences"? Tokyo Dream performance Wetton's _Arkangel_ Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" (none) When In Doubt, Roll Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" =========================================================== From: "Sal Pichireddu" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:35:48 +1000 Subject: Jobson-CD for Wetton-CD? Hi there, I'm desperately looking for a (CD!)copy of John Wetton's first solo album 'Caught in the Crossfire'. I could offer a Cd-copy of Eddie Jobson 'Themes of Secrets'. Greetings Sal --- I'll never find a better time to be alive than now. (Peter Hammill, 1996) =========================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:34:11 -0400 From: Michael Cox Subject: Bruford left U.K. because of "creative differences"? Hi, I think you have to look at KC, Yes, ELP and their history. Most of the members really like Jazz, listening and playing. If you listen to some of the early '70's Yes and KC at the same time, there are lot's of similarities (eliminating the signature of RF). When KC reformed it was not a good time for Wetton since Asia was taking off, so RF asked Peter Gabriel if he knew of a bass player and we get Tony Levin into the fold. I'm not saying Wetton is easy to get along with. If you've heard any interviews with him, he's hard to understand (for me at least), and he's certainly had his run-in's with Steve Howe, RF, EJ etc. . . . on a lighter note . . . I remember the review of U.K.'s first album and U.K.'s second (Danger Money) in the Toronto Globe and Mail. In the review, the reviewer indicates that "don't the band members realize that long instrumental passages are passe?" This SAME reviwer adored the first album. Yet on "Danger Money" there's less "instrumental passages" than on "U.K.". Maybe the words were spoken too fast on "Danger Money" for the reviewer? -- Michael Cox | Remember: Poor Object-Oriented Programming -- POOP! Mitel Corp. |"Is Time long or is it wide?" L.A. 1995 In sunny |"I laughed so hard until I stopped." M.P. 1970 Kanata! | Mitel has nothing to do with my opinions. They're all mine! =========================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:48:45 -0500 From: paulkohler@enter.net (PAUL KOHLER) Subject: Re: In the Dead of Night of 04/29/97 (#121) >From: Jeff Preston >Subject: Paul Kohler's comments, etc. >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:04:39 -0600 > >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:06:02 -0500 >>From: paulkohler@enter.net (PAUL KOHLER) >>Subject: Re: ALLAN HOLDSWORTH >>That means if these >>recordings are actually released by Voiceprint Records they will be >>100% OFFICIAL releases!! Looks like Allan has been holding back >>information on you Jeff!! >Just because >a company releases a recording, that does not, by >default, make it "official," or legitimate. If it was >a live recording made without the permission of the >artists, you and I both know it is illicit -- even if >Atlantic Records distributes it. Well in this case both of those shows were recorded from the soundboard by the band. I've got the tapes for both of those shows and they are definately not audience recordings. So if these recordings ever do see the "Light Of Day" they WILL be OFFICIAL!! >>Also, for those of you that are interested, there is a brand new Allan >>Holdsworth CD that has just been released by Cleopatra Records called, >>"I.O.U. Band Live 1984". This is from Allan's 5/14/84 performance at >>Yubinchokin Hall in Tokyo, Japan. This was originally released in >>Japan on video tape and on Laser Disc, as "Tokyo Dream". This is an >>OFFICIAL release and NOT a bootleg!! > >This is absolute bullshit, too. This CD is a bootleg >of a bootleg. Well Jeff perhaps you'd like to call Allan and ask him why he is receiving royalty checks for the sale of this recording!! That's right Jeff, he's making money from the sale of this CD!! Don't believe me, well ask him yourself. Apparently Paul Williams has ensured that all of the band members on this recording will receive royalties from the sale of said recording. If this really IS a bootleg CD and Allan is making money from it, how then is this still considered to be a bootleg? Please explain Jeff. --------------------------------------------------------------- >From: feathers@icanect.net (Michael C. Feathers) >Subject: Allan Holdworth Live CD??? >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 19:04:16 GMT > >I saw a live Allan Holdsworth CD at the store the other day. It appears >to be a legit release, does anyone know more about it? I think that it >is "Live IOU" or something like that. > >I hope it is good but I want the net opinion first. I would highly recommend this CD!! It will probably be your only chance to hear an OFFICIAL Live Allan Holdsworth CD ever!! >From: al919@yfn.ysu.edu (Jeff Preston) >Subject: Re: Allan Holdworth Live CD??? >Date: 27 Apr 1997 20:30:25 GMT > >In a previous article, feathers@icanect.net (Michael C. Feathers) says: > >>I saw a live Allan Holdsworth CD at the store the other day. It appears >>to be a legit release, does anyone know more about it? I think that it >>is "Live IOU" or something like that. > >No; it is a bootleg of a bootleg. It's the audio portion of the >illicit "Tokyo Dream" videodisc which came out in 1984. It's also >the worst performance of Holdsworth ever captured, IMO. Now Jeff let me get this straight, you are 100% against bootleg recordings correct? You also say that the "Tokyo Dream" performance is the worst performance of AH ever captured, correct? Well let me help our fellow ITDON readers and the world at large really see how much YOUR opinion is actually worth: FACT #1: Jeff Preston does not own or has never listened to any "live" Allan Holdsworth bootleg tapes. FACT #2: Jeff Preston's opinion is based solely on what he personally has heard/seen of Allan Holdsworth at his live performances, which is, I'm guessing, less than 5 times. FACT #3: Who's opinion holds more validity, a person who's entire opinion is based on hearing Allan live roughly 5 times or a person, namely ME, who literally has seen Allan 7 times, owns EVERY RECORD that Allan has ever played on, AND who has heard hundreds of hours of live recordings of Allan with Gong, Soft Machine, Tempest, U.K., Tony Williams, Gordon Beck, Nucleus, Turning Point, Bruford, Stanley Clarke, not to mention his gigs as a leader? Well I think I've made my point here, Jeff you wouldn't know a good Allan Holdsworth performance if it bit you in the a**!! >The vocalist, Paul Williams, and his manager somehow concocted >the release of this... apparently, they convinced the label that >Paul had the right to release this, but he does not. ..........and yet Allan is receiving royalty checks for this recording, fascinating wouldn't you say?!! ---------------------------------------- >From: al919@yfn.ysu.edu (Jeff Preston) >Subject: Re: Allan Holdworth Live CD??? >Date: 28 Apr 1997 00:53:40 GMT > >In a previous article, mrberwell@aol.com (MrBERWELL) says: > >>It is legit, and sounds great!!!! > >It is not, no matter how badly you'd like to believe it. If you don't >believe me, you might consider looking at BMI's Web site >(http://www.bmi.com/). You'll notice that Paul Williams doesn't >appear as a writer or a co-writer of any of these tunes. How do >you propose that he was able to *legitimately* release this? Sorry to say Jeff but Paul Williams does share song writing credits on some of those songs. He wrote the lyrics to most, if not all of those tunes. Here are the facts folks: These are the actual copyright numbers that are on file!! PA-291-247 "Panic Stations" Allan Holdsworth/Paul Williams Yarlett PA-291-248 "Metal fatigue" Paul Williams Yarlett/Allan Holdsworth PAu-553-904 "Road Games" Paul Williams Yarlett/Allan Holdsworth SRu-46-799 "Material Real" Paul Williams Yarlett/Allan Holdsworth SRu-46-884 "Was There?" Paul Williams Yarlett/Allan Holdsworth The results of the above data are from a copyright search done by a friend of mine when he worked on Capitol Hill!! So, what have we learned from all of this? The new Allan Holdsworth CD-"I.O.U. Live" IS 100% OFFICIAL!!!!!!! I don't want to hear another word about this being a f***in' bootleg!! If Jeff wants to believe that this is a bootleg CD, let him!! As for the rest of you, I think the facts have spoken for themselves!! Happy listening folks!! PAUL KOHLER paulkohler@enter.net ************************************** VISIT "VELVET DARKNESS" THE UNOFFICIAL ALLAN HOLDSWORTH WEB SITE! http://www.enter.net/~paulkohler ************************************** =========================================================== Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:07:15 -0400 (EDT) From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruford left U.K. because of "creative differences"? << When KC reformed it was not a good time for Wetton since Asia was taking off, so RF asked Peter Gabriel if he knew of a bass player and we get Tony Levin into the fold. >> Is this true? I'd never heard this before.You mean otherwise Fripp would have had Wetton back in the band? Who would have sung, Wetton or Belew? Both? Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg@aol.com =========================================================== Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:58:35 -0600 (MDT) From: ggafter Subject: Tokyo Dream performance > From: al919@yfn.ysu.edu (Jeff Preston) > Subject: Re: Allan Holdworth Live CD??? > Date: 27 Apr 1997 20:30:25 GMT > > In a previous article, feathers@icanect.net (Michael C. Feathers) says: > > >I saw a live Allan Holdsworth CD at the store the other day. It appears > >to be a legit release, does anyone know more about it? I think that it > >is "Live IOU" or something like that. > > No; it is a bootleg of a bootleg. It's the audio portion of the > illicit "Tokyo Dream" videodisc which came out in 1984. It's also > the worst performance of Holdsworth ever captured, IMO. Hm, it has always been among my favorite Holdsworth performances, even from the first time I saw the videodisc in 1985. Maybe they should have seperate sections in all record stores from now on - those that are 'misappropriated intellectual property' (i.e. the artists has some qualm about its release, even if he's a bit flaky), and those that are 'legitimate.' I know I would never step into *that* section to shop. ;) Glen Gafter =========================================================== Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:05:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SPrice0426@aol.com Subject: Wetton's _Arkangel_ I received my copy of John Wetton's _Arkangel_ and this week and I cannot stop listening to the disc. I've tried, but I keep going back to it again and again. I have to say the album is not what I expected, and that makes it even better. I truly enjoyed _Battle Lines_ (and/or _Voice Mail_ for that matter), but this recording is a major step forward in musical as well as lyrical formats. I thought _Battle Lines_ was an excellent album with the title track and _Hold Me Now_ expressing some of the strongest feelings I have heard on a recording in some time. John has taken that spirit, taken it many steps further, and recorded a masterpiece in human emotion on _Arkangel_. For the record I did not know what to make of the album the first time I heard it. I think I was expecting a more-pop oriented album when I was hit with a rollercoaster collection of emotional and musical hills and valleys, taking us places that I have not experienced in his music before. This album seems to best integrate his many influences, band, and feelings like never before. I hear Crimson, UK, Asia, and Wetton solo all rolled into _Arkangel_. "The Circle of St. Giles" opening instrumental grows dramatically into "The Last Thing on My Mind" which expresses the feelings anyone has experienced in trying to eliminate destructive behavior, a pattern that resurfaces in our minds time and time again even when not desired. The heavy beat demonstrating the pulsating darkness that lies underneath our hope of putting our past behind us. 'Desperate Times" follows showing the isolation and distance we put between ourselves in today's society, the music lulling us into a false sense of security. Why a false sense of security? Because the next song is indeed one of the most intense outpourings of repressed anger I have heard in my life. It seems John's life is exposed in "I Can't Lie Anymore". When I read the lyrics before I received the disc I was expecting an unaccessible slower paced song, but I couldn't have been further from the truth. What we get is a melodic, powerful, guitar driven song which climaxes with anger and confusion. In my opinion, this is a true classic, a song that could be held back ironically because of its strength in emotion. A clap of thunder follows announcing the arrival of "Arkangel", a quiet title track of praise for John's arkangel which hopefully protects and strengthens him during his troubled times. All of this happened and we aren't halfway through the album!! "You Against the World" lightens the music landscape a bit, but brings us into maturity fighting against the memories that linger. Then we are warned with a powerful voice to "Be Careful What You Wish For" in another guitar driven song as we seek our healing, but find ourselves failing in our efforts for personal peace. "Emma" is there to offer comfort in our times of hurt, a friend that we always need with a soft touch and voice seemingly taking away the despair after getting what we wish for and not always recognizing the consequences. A beautiful song giving us a needed break and leading us into the first single to be released from the album. "Nothing Happens for Nothing" is one of those songs that grows on you with every listen. A catchy tune with melodic guitar work that continues our journey into adulthood by understanding that everything happens for a reason, and that all of our actions and words affect everyone else around us. "All Grown Up" reminds us of our vow to change or unlearn those destructive patterns we learned in childhood and that our children will learn whatever behavior we show them. According to JW, "After All" is written about a friend who was in pain, but resting peacefully now, but listening to the song I still hear the fear of what's to come. Another emotional song, and anyone who has lost a loved one will identify with the sadness and regret of losing that person, but wanting to know that peace and hope is there for all of us. "The Celtic Cross" is a heartwarming instrumental with a peaceful guitar solo from JW himself granting us the solace we need from such an emotional, moving album. The Japanese release offers "Take These Tears" which was originally released as an additional track on JW's cd single "Right Where I Wanted to Be", and I implore him to put it on any additional releases of, Arkangel_, too. The song is a father's attempt to answer the questions of his young son on why the world is in the shape it is in. It's a touching song, much lighter than the rest of the disc, offering hope to those who will have their chance to correct the wrongs of life today. In case you can't tell, I loved the album. The emotions are true, the music impeccable with the guitars of Robert Fripp and Steve Hackett included, and even John emphasizes his bass more than he has had in recent releases. You may have to listen to it more than once, and I would suggest in private where you can crank the volume and experience the pure emotion. You'll be emotional, too. Respectfully Steve Price =========================================================== From: Henry Potts Subject: Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:04:30 +0100 In article <3368BAB5.D7@ansto.gov.au>, Andrew Studer writes >OK I've gone home and listened to my "aletrnate mix" of "Leave It" >to check for sure if there really is a violin track. The >verdict is: > >- It's definitely a violin >- It's definitely played by a human being (not a sample) [...] >It's trivial, but it's kind of interesting. Maybe NFTE should bring >this up the next time they interview Alan White. I haven't heard the mix in question, so I can't comment directly. However, Jobson has been crystal clear that he never recorded anything with Yes, so it's certainly not him. Yes did use some string accompaniment on _Big Generator_: Rabin is credited with string arrangements, but the album doesn't say who played them. If the alternate mix was supervised by Horn, it would not be unlike him to draft in a session musician for just this sort of added touch. On the other hand, I have heard some very impressive simulations using synthesizers like the Fairlight. -- Henry =========================================================== [Forwarded from Atavachron] From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath) Subject: "New" UK Album Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:14:01 +0100 In the latest edition of MOJO, tucked away in several of the record mail order small ads, is listed a live (presumably legitimate), UK album "Dead of Night", for 12 to 13 pounds sterling. Only other details given is that the album features the original UK line-up. Can somebody enlighten me to the history of this album, what tracks it features, where it was recorded, quality and whether, in an earlier existence, it was a bootleg? (Which reminds me, is it not about time somebody got round to releasing the soundtrack to the Bruford Band's "Rock Goes To College" TV recording - if still available. The Windfall label for instance has issued many of the other BBC broadcast recordings?). [ Jeff Preston's note: This UK release would appear to be a bootleg -- one which Eddie Jobson has apparently stopped from being distributed, according to another mailing list. --JP ] These small ads also show that a new John Wetton is on the way - is this the one which has come under heavy criticism in these pages recently? Dick Heath =========================================================== Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:32:48 -0400 (EDT) From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: When In Doubt, Roll Took a chance and ordered Bruford's book. I'm not a musician, let alone a drummer so the transcriptions were wasted on me. But the man can really right. Combined with an interview excerpt I'd heard, I would have to say that he is one of the most insightful and well-spoken/written people I've ever encountered. Have others on the list read the book and, if so, what was your reaction? Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg@aol.com =========================================================== From: Andrew Studer Subject: Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 12:00:06 -0700 Henry Potts wrote: > Yes did use some string > accompaniment on _Big Generator_: Rabin is credited with string > arrangements, but the album doesn't say who played them. I always thought that the intro was a send up of "Papa Don't Preach"; similarly I'm sure I heard somewhere that the intro of "Owner of a Lonely Heart" was a take off of "heat of the Moment". Is this right? Wrong? Scurrilous rumour? If the > alternate mix was supervised by Horn, it would not be unlike him to > draft in a session musician for just this sort of added touch. On the > other hand, I have heard some very impressive simulations using > synthesizers like the Fairlight. Hmmmm, not in 1983 or whenever it was. Fairlight heavy albums like Peter Gabriel's fourth album and Oldfield's "Five Miles Out" to me were good indicators of the sound quality of the instrument. > -- > Henry =========================================================== From: Pyko Subject: Re: This suggestion of Jobson on "Leave It" Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 19:45:04 +0000 Andrew Studer wrote: > > If the > > alternate mix was supervised by Horn, it would not be unlike him to > > draft in a session musician for just this sort of added touch. On the > > other hand, I have heard some very impressive simulations using > > synthesizers like the Fairlight. > > Hmmmm, not in 1983 or whenever it was. Fairlight heavy albums like > Peter Gabriel's fourth album and Oldfield's "Five Miles Out" to me > were good indicators of the sound quality of the instrument. > > > -- > > Henry The idea that Jobson played violin on "Leave It" *did* sound more like wishful thinking to me than anything else. The Fairlight CMI used on both above mentioned albums was a series II (Gabriel's 4th album came out in 1981), and this instrument, with it's 8-bit resolution, was rather inferior soundwise (meaning in the hi-fi sense of the word, since it's a highly subjective matter) to the Series III machine available in 1983. Besides, the violin sound on "Leave It" is so highly processed that fidelity can't have been much of an issue. -Pyko =========================================================== [A final word of warning from RC: I sent Voiceprint my 1 pound to get their Asia sampler a few weeks ago, and still have not received it yet...] ========================================================== Send all submissions to: dead-of-night-request@cogs.susx.ac.uk To get onto or be removed from the list: owner-dead-of-night@cogs.susx.ac.uk WWW Pages (back issues, discographies, etc): http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/itdon/itdon.html NEVER send mail to dead-of-night@cogs.susx.ac.uk! Ron Chrisley, Moderator ========================================================== End of this issue of In the Dead of Night ==========================================================